Praise and worship session VS christian concert

Date: Nov 25 18:25:00 2004

RE: Praise and worship session VS christian concert

Date: Nov 25 19:27:58 2004

Again, we don't have to be CLONES.

As much as I respect your resumes, credibility and so forth, I must advise you guys that you cannot claim to have the exclusive right to represent or interpret GOD.

Look, concert is a platform. You use it to communicate. You use it to give an impression. Is it the best form of communication? Absolutely not! But is it effective in attracting people? Yes! So what's wrong with employing it for the purpose of reaching out? Is it really a sin? There was a question asked "Which one is more influential in America now, CHURCH or MTV?" Why is that? Has anybody in any seminaries analyzed that? What are the resolutions?

moore,

You have perfectly valid points from your perspective of the issue. But there is one line that you've written that supposed to answer that. "......and I don't encourage them to be involved in concerts unless they are firmly founded in the Bible." You got it right there! That's exactly the appropriate launching pad for the ministry in concert form. If you simply dismiss concert as something that GOD strictly prohibits then it's hard to comprehend the logic of your common sense.

Linda,

I'm sorry to hear your analysis of this subject. You seem to be unable to understand the meaning of "STRATEGY" and "COMMUNICATION". You 1st argument is too narrow-minded. Can you feed a baby with steak? As delicious as it is for us adults it is impossible for a baby to enjoy it without teeth! The baby needs to do some growing up before he can enjoy it. Can you force the gospel down someone's throat without building a bridge of understanding? Your 2nd argument seems to reflect your own personal fearfulness. You're quoting fallen witnesses. You're promoting negativity and cowardice. You're promoting "everything is going to mess up so don't do anything!" attitude. You failed to look at the subject in wider scope. Are you taking this subject as the ONE and ONLY thing that is happening in a person's life? Come on! I want to eat rice for my lunch and dinner and no concert will ever satisfy my stomach. Give me a break! What happen to the 15 years? Have you been trapped in a TALIBAN type of Christianity? Your last point is a blatant ignorance of you part and it's saddening. Maybe you should revise your bible and delete the part where King David is making fool of himself by dancing and leaping with all his might while only wearing linen cloth round his waist to honor the LORD!

PLEASE GROW UP!

Date: Nov 25 20:26:44 2004

Hi rough,

The reason why I mentioned that the musicians must be firmly grounded in the Word before being involved in concerts is because the leadership of the church desires to do concert. We are told in the Word to submit to our leaders and must not be one to cause division in the church, unless God calls us to do so.

You see, if God places me in the position to do so, I would not have planned any concerts at all, because it is contrary to the Word and it distracts many from the Lord. Instead, all attention is focused to the performances.

By the way, every believer should seek through the scripture and see what is says. I am doing this to help us to learn together, because in

2 Tim 3:15-16 "And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

You can see that the Word speaks for itself.

What would happen if we don't do what the Word says?

Matt 7:26-27" And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

I pray that many will see the truth. Time is short, brothers.

God Bless

Date: Nov 25 21:18:23 2004

moore,

You're treading a thin line there.

"We are told in the Word to submit to our leaders and must not be one to cause division in the church, unless God calls us to do so.
You see, if God places me in the position to do so, I would not have planned any concerts at all, because it is contrary to the Word and it distracts many from the Lord. Instead, all attention is focused to the performances."

To me your statement shows some confusion. It gives the impression that you're a reluctant follower of your religious organization. You're already convinced that concert is sin and yet you gave way to it for reason of submission. Now tell me, do you believe that anything done without FAITH is sin? If you do, then is it not a sin when you compromised your belief for the sake of human leaders?!

Have you actually talked and discussed thoroughly your position with the leadership of your 'church' with regard to this 'concert' issue? If no, then you should because that's where you can learn a lot more on the practical aspects of 'evangelization'. If yes, did they take your view seriously? Or for that matter, did they take YOU seriously? If the answer is 'no', I really don't want to ridicule you but maybe you should consider seriously whether you belong there or not!

I do honestly believe that your mentality/approach does have its relevance in christendom. However it is not THE ONLY WAY. Listen, the harvest is big. Too big for only one approach. Your approach is anti-fun, anti-recreation type. Maybe you're the dominant melancholic/phlegmatic type. I don't and cannot blame you. But how can you restrain those choleric, sanguine dominant types? If they have so much energy to spare why you want to chain them? They should be guided not shackled!

By the way how many hours do we spend on corporate praise & worship? 5-7 hours a week? What happen to the other 163-161 hours? Are we stop praising and worshipping GOD? Maybe you should redefine your understanding of Roman 12:1.

Concert is simply one of the many ways to live a normal healthy lifestyle. Like any human activities it can be abused. Just because it can be abused doesn't mean it is wrong. So just use concert to enjoy and communicate the truth. Don't take it too seriously. Do you know that there are so many corruptions, malpractices and scandals in every church organization? If you're really that serious in bringing greater impact then why don't you try to bring up these issues to the 'church' management/leadership? These are the 'real game' for those veterans/seasoned players in christendom.

Date: Nov 26 02:51:10 2004

Hi rough,

We must obey our leaders.-Hebrews 13:17 "Obey them that have the rule ovr you, and submit yurselves:for they watch for yur souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you."

It is clear enough.

Since you mentioned Roamns 12:1, let's take it further to verse 2.

v1) I beseech you therefore, brethren,by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
v2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God

present your bodies-This refer to 1 Thess 5:23" And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Our spirit, soul and body must be blameless.

Living sacrifice-this refers to Heb 13:15-16 "By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.
But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased. Living sacrifice is giving thanks to His name, to do good and to communicate the Word.

holy and acceptable- simply blameless and pleasing before God. If we conformed to this world (v2) how can we be pleasing before God? Then we are not proving what is good, and acceptable and perfect will of God. Concert does not glorify God, but only praise and worship.

MTV will always be more famous than praise and worship because it caters for the desires of the flesh. The road to destruction is big and wide while the road to life is straight and narrow.

Matt 7:13-14"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

It is better to do praise and worship to God than concert, for many will find God when God is glorified and feared. Believe me, my friend-the message of salvation will cause many to hate us. But if we seek to do performances, then the world will loved us. You see, satan wants true worship be diverted from God and he will do anything to keep God's ppl from worshipping Him, even if it means organising performances concert. Jesus has told us very early how it should be:

John 15:17-20 "These things I command you, that ye love one another.
   If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
   If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
   Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also."

I pray that many will see the truth. Thereis only way and one approach to the kingdom of God. There is no time to have fun and do recreation on earth when souls are on their way to hell. Only in heaven will we have fun and recreation in our eternal dwelling with God.

God bless you brother

Thanks for being sincere.

Date: Nov 27 06:42:27 2004

Hi Linda, wah wah wah ... kalau mcm tu option bagi orang mcm kaim yang suka konsert ialah menghadiri konsert sekularlah kan, sebab tdk boleh konsert rohani, mcm itu kah ? wah nampaknya Tuhan yg anda sembah tdk up 2 date .. Ketinggalan zaman, setahu saya DIA hadir d mana saja asal isi kandungan dan penyataan hati anda tertuju padaNYA tdk kira konsert ke, mimbar gereja hari ahad ke, dalam gua ke, kutub utara ke... hmmm entahlah Linda, anda cuma terlalu "sinis" dan tdk cuba melihat pada sebalik "negetif" dari kesan yang sedang anda per'hakim" kan ... namun saya percaya dan sangat yakin saya DI JAMAH dan MENERIMA YESUS kerana menghadiri salah satu pesta pujian dan penyembahan ( konsert rohani ) , bukan kerana di injil oleh para pastor dan penatua, kalau bukan kerana (sarana) konsert tersebut, sampai kini saya masih terhilang, sungguh malangnya keselamatan yg saya dan mungkin org lain terima setelah menghadiri konsert ( tertarik dgn pujian dan cara ) akhirnya mengakui YESUS sebagai juruselamat, masih anda persoalkan seprtinya kami masih terhilang dan sesat ... saya sangat kesal... saya harap saya bisa saya mempertanyakan hal ini terus kepada TUHAN saat ini, KENAPA SAYA TERPANGGIL DALAM SEBUAH PESTA PUJIAN DAN PENYEMBAHAN ( KONSERT ) bukannya melalui penyampaian injil ...

, saya sedih dan sedih mengenangkan betapa masioh ada orang yang mengaku kristen bahkan menulis dengan baik tentang hal2 ini TETAPI tidak pernah CUBA MENGERTI DAN MEMAHAMI betap KASIH YESUS bisa saja disampaikan dalam banyak cara ... TUHAN TIDAK TERBATAS ... saya yakin hal ini ....

Date: Nov 27 21:28:27 2004

moore,

I have to salute you for your consistent position regarding this issue. I don't think either of us will want to change our position. However I feel your last statement requires further deep thought. If you're really into evangelization then you should know the importance of being able to connect with your target. If you cannot connect with them then your message will just be wasted. But then again if you insist on talking to deaf ears then that's your choice. A smart move will be to get into the target's "language" and communicate. Do you know what I mean?

If you choose not to use the normal human's recreation and fun activities to be able to "communicate" the gospel, then that's your choice as well. Let God be the final judge of that. As I said before you probably have different natural temperament than I. If you choose to reach out by emphasizing the message of end time coming destruction then that is your choice. But if other christians put the emphasis on love and forgiveness, financial solution, healing or any other themes as the introduction to the gospel then you should not accuse them of being "inadequate" or "astray". After all there is a principle in the Bible that says sometimes the sowing and reaping will not be done by the same person. That is my position. I will sow and if I cannot reap immediately its okay. Let other brothers or sisters reap. I will certainly be rejoicing for the honor of reaping the earlier brothers/sisters fruits of labor. I will never claim to be able to achieve everything on my own. I need the other members of the BODY to carry out what the HEAD wants to achieve. So I will not try to change your position but rather exhort you to be more appreciative of what the other christians are doing. Don't be too critical until you get involved personally and get the feeling hands on.

I gotta go, continue later if time permits. God bless you too!

Date: Nov 28 07:14:22 2004

Hi rough,

It is true that no one can work alone. But as you say, the Word has told us that one will sow and others will reap. What matters in the end, is to walk in love, for love covers a multitude of sin. I pray that you will forgive me for I forgive you too. May the Lord bless you and cause you to prosper in all that you do.

God Bless

Date: Nov 29 18:29:03 2004

Shalom semua pembaca,

buat semua pembaca yang bijaksana di dalam kasih Tuhan, sudah kesekian kalinya kita mendengar dan juga membahaskan pokok mengenai konsert sekular yang di adaptasikan kepada kekristenan menjadi konsert rohani. saya tidak mempunyai rasa sakit hati ataupun mempunyai perasaan marah kepada pembaca yang memberikan respons cuma yang saya harapkan ialah agar kita sama sama merenungkan apakah yang kita telah lakukan pada generasi muda zaman sekarang ini.

pertama sekali, marilah kita melihat, cara yang kita pakai untuk menginjil jiwa jiwa.Kita jangan melihat bahawa semua sarana dapat dijadikan cara untuk memenangkan jiwa jiwa asal itu seturut kita, membawa kepada kemuliaan Allah. Janganlah kita menjadi tegar tengkuk, dengan menolak akan peranan Injil, isi kebenaran Illlahi yang mana menuntun kita menjadi orang yang dibenarkan di dalam iman kepada Tuhan.

apa yang melanda kita pada zaman ini adalah dimana kita melalui zaman jiwa jiwa anak muda yang memberontak, yang tidak sukakan cara yang dianggap kolot dan juga TUHAN itu boleh menjadi ketinggalan zaman. Allah tidak pernah ketinggalan zaman kerana Allah itu tidak terbatas oleh waktu. Jadi jangan kita sekali kali memandai mandai mengatakan Allah itu ketinggalan zaman hanya kerana FirmanNya tidak menghalalkan cara yang kita sukai sebagai contoh budaya konsert tanpa pemahaman yang benar.

Pada tahun 1970an, gereja gereja di Amerika mengalami revolusi anak anak muda yang memberontak terhadap organisasi gereja gereja dan membentuk kumpulan sebagai JESUS PEOPLE ataupun yang dipanggil sebagai JESUS MOVEMENT. sejarah gereja di Amerika menunjukkan bahawa golongan ini merupakan golongan hippies dan menikahkan gaya hidup hippies dengan ajaran Injil dan hasilnya lahirlah pengikut pengikut Yesus yang kononnya bebas dari segala macam pengawasan penatua gereja kerana merasa bahawa diri sudah cukup hebat, tidak memerlukan bimbingan orang yang lebih matang di dalam TUHAN. JESUS PEOPLE ini jika dilihat, mirip dengan apa yang melanda gereja gereja di masa kini. Anak anak muda sekarang tidak boleh langsung ditegur demi untuk membetulkan kesalah fahaman mereka tentang segala sesuatu yang berkaitan dengan agama.Jika ditegur, pantang terus di cap sebagai menghakimi..padahal itu adalah teguran yang tulus. Ada yang siap lagi melabelkan teguran sebagai kutukan. Itulah yang lahir dari penginjilan ala ala konsert rohani, semuanya menurut kepala sendiri. Kepada saudara Rough, saya memang sentiasa membuka Firman Allah demi untuk merenungi diri dan juga untuk membangunkan sesama saudara.

Tugas menginjil ini memang seperti layaknya kita menjala ikan ikan dilaut, kerana Yesus sudah bersabda kepada para RasulNya seperti yang tertulis di dalam Kitab Suci. Jadi bagaimanakah caranya kita mengijili kepada jiwa jiwa? Satu cara sahajakah? IYA.memang hanya satu cara sahaja iaitu melalui PEMBERITAAN INJIL. Tanyakan pada diri anda Rough, apakah para Rasul menderita aniaya kerana mengadakan konsert rohani? Sudah pasti TIDAK bukan? Mereka menderita aniaya kerana PEMBERITAAN INJIL. Sebelum anda mengatakan kepada saya agar membuka Kitab Suci dan menyelidiki seluruh Alkitab tersebut, ada baiknya anda merenungkan kisah RASUL PAULUS yang menanamkan benih Injil ke Benua Eropah melalui PERWARTAAN INJIL. Saudara Rough, memang banyak orang mengakui begitu banyak cara untuk menjangkau Jiwa Jiwa dan Yesus sudah mengatakan bahawa kita akan menjala jiwa jiwa seperti lagaknya nelayan di lautan. Apakah maksud dengan menjala jiwa jiwa? Exegesis dari ayat itu adalah bererti, kesungguhan kita yang menuntut pengorbanan, berpanas dan berhujan demi keselamatan banyak jiwa..itu barulah dipanggil sebagai menjala jiwa jiwa, tetapi jika kita menggunakan cara duniawi dan melabelkan itu sebagai cara penginjilan, itu lebih mudah dipanggil sebagai MENUBA JIWA JIWA..

Janganlah kita terjerat dengan jalan kita sendiri, KETAATAN HATI itu LEBIH BESAR DARIPADA MEMPERSEMBAHKAN KORBAN. Kita harus mentaati KEBENARAN FIRMAN ALLAH TANPA BERKOMPROMI DENGAN CARA DUNIA. Saudara Rough, jika tiada garis panduan tentang bagaimana kita dapat menginjil jiwa jiwa, bacalah tentang sejarah JESUS PEOPLE dan apakah buah yang terhasil dari gerakan itu. Rough, jangan lupa bahawa golongan The Family Of God adalah hasil dari gerakan Jesus People dimana para pengikut sekte ini menghalalkan SEKS sebagai cara untuk menjala jiwa jiwa.Nah, inilah yang dipanggil sebagai perlecehan rohani dimana kita berkompromi dengan cara DUNIA dan MENIKAHKANNYA DENGAN KEKRISTENAN.

Saudara Rough, ini bukan tempatnya untuk menunjuk diri tentang siapakah yang paling hebat dalam pemahaman KITAB SUCI tetapi merupakan tempat untuk kita saling menegur dan mengingatkan apa lagi saya merasa terpanggil untuk melakukannya selapas 15 tahun terlibat didalam dunia pelayanan dan kaunseling di Asia dan juga di Amerika.Saya harap kita dapat melihat forum ini sebagai satu cara untuk kita semakin matang di dalam YESUS.

Date: Nov 29 20:29:33 2004

Shalom everbody,

Ever since the rebellious years of the 60's & 70's, a transformation has been taking place in the churches. Little by little, a rebellion away from doctrinally sound hymns has been in progress. A process of "informalizing" God with choruses, "Scripture songs" and finally, a new genre..."worship songs." Concurrently, first the guitar was introduced. Then, the bass. And then eventually, the whole "band" along with the drum trap set. Now, there are churches that don't even have any hymnals, or organ.

In the past, to greater or lesser degrees, we have addressed church music from the standpoint of lyrics, the Spiritual worship experience, and the satanic origins of Rock music. Now, it is time to analyze a few representative characteristics of this modern Rock-based music, compared to Scriptural guidelines. Rather than just saying "it's wrong" or that it "comes from Satan"; exactly "what" is wrong with it? Can we actually put our fingers on things, specifically, and say "this" or "that" is what's wrong with it? Yes we can.

Paul writes, "Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if...anything praiseworthy; meditate on these things." (Phil4:8) We can virtually analyze the matter with this one verse.

WHATEVER THINGS ARE TRUE: When a lead Rock guitar is switched into "overdrive" to produce the "wailing" sound, what is happening? As explained to me by a guitar person at a music store, the external device introduces "massive gain" into the circuits. When circuit limits are exceeded, the result is "distortion." Purposeful distortion.

What is "distortion?" To "bend out of shape" or a state of "lack of fidelity." An otherwise "beautiful" sound (of the guitar) is manipulated into something other than its true form. Who is the master distortionist? Jesus said, "..your father the Devil...When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it."(Jn8:44) He began his campaign in Genesis 3 with Eve by twisting God's commands. As Peter says of those who are rebellious, that they "twist" the Scriptures, "to their own destruction." (2Pt3:16) As Rock-n- roll began in the 50's, it was labeled, even by the world, a "music of rebellion." They think it is rebellion against the "establishment" or "children against their parents." But it goes far deeper. It is Satan's rebellion against God. I have always thought the "overdrive" guitar sounded like "satan's voice." Perhaps this explains why? And how about the "devil's horns" of the guitar body as a church "icon"!

WHATEVER THINGS ARE NOBLE: this extends, then, too, to the voice. How many rock singers do you know who sing with a "natural" voice? The characteristic is to shout, strain and contort the voice. Many contort their whole bodies as they make the heinously awful sounds. And this has become part of "worship." Not to mention the "damage" to the vocal chords, which requires them to receive surgery to repair it. Christians are supposed to take care of their bodies, as being the "temple of the Holy Spirit."(1Cor6:19)

WHATEVER THINGS ARE PURE: this gets us into the "beat" aspect. We, as human beings (physical beings) are "responsive" beings. That is, our bodies are designed to respond to certain stimuli in quite predictable ways. Just as our arm will quickly jerk our finger away from that hot stove it just touched, or we close our eyes when water comes splashing at them, there are things about music which affect our bodies...and ultimately our souls and spirits.

That deeeep bass that rumbles by in traffic, that you can still feel after the car is blocks away. Throbbing bass. Some say that it gets the heart beat rate to be "in sync" with it. Other nerves, for sure, are affected by it; either to become agitated, irritated, or otherwise sensually motivated. Is "bass" therefore "bad?" No. If you have heard TV's "JAG" opening band music on a system with a good subwoofer, you will feel that the bass drum resonance, in conjunction with the music, elicits a certain patriotic "noble" feeling.

In close symmetry with bass is the beat; the drums. Typically the world associates it with sensuality, dancing, sexuality. Having lived a rather sheltered life I've more recently seen video clips of "Elvis the Pelvis." It's embarrassing even to look at. Emulated as "the king," he started it. Now, one does not have to look very far to find it. Entertainment groups appearing with Jay Leno or Sinbad, Spice girls, etc. NOTHING is left to the imagination in their "performances"! Perhaps you have noticed how many commercials are accompanied by nothing but drums recently. Getting to the root core of the "senses."

Let's connect this to the "worship band." The female lead singers standing up there, "innocently" tapping their toes to the "beat." Now, remember the old Negro spiritual, "ankle bone connected to the...leg bone -> thigh bone -> hip bone." Some are "connected" better than others, but all are connected. Think about it honestly, fellows. When she's up there tapping her toe, "what" are you looking at? "Whatever things are PURE"..?? No, it's not the extreme of the Spice girls...but it's still there. Paul writes, "make no provision for the flesh" in regard to its lusts.(Rom13:14) Is it "virtuous" or "praiseworthy"? Paul writes, "Flee sexual immorality."(1Cor6:18) As Jesus said, "..whoever LOOKS..to lust" is guilty. (Mt5:28) That is NOT "praise" to God Most High!

This is not limited to the platform. People singing along to the beat, themselves go into dancing gyrations. What is the nature of these movements? That which they learn from the world when hearing the "same beat" at other venues. Do not be deceived! This is NOT the same kind of dancing David did when he worshiped God!

WHATEVER THINGS ARE LOVELY: high decibel volume levels are well- documented as a source of hearing loss. In addition, they can cause other sensory ailments which can make a person "woozy" as the nerves are "deadened." Lose control. Not only is the sound awful, and sometimes "painful", it begins to open the door through this "lost control" ...to the demons. In countering the charismatic experiences, Paul wrote, "the spirits of the prophets are SUBJECT TO the prophets."(1Cor14:32) He speaks of keeping the "understanding."(14:15) Being in control. "Be not drunk with wine in which is dissipation (lacking restraints); but be filled with the [Holy] Spirit."(Eph5:18)

We are not even having enough space to consider "nervous" types of percussion effects used. Nor multiple complex rhythm patterns which can do all sorts of things to the senses. Not to mention the very "distracting" sounds during "quiet" times like "rim" clicks, or "transistor sound", etc.

It starts with decibels. But also includes occultish, hypnotic, mantra-like REPETITIONS. A "mantra" is "A sacred verbal formula repeated in prayer, meditation, or incantation, such as an invocation of a god, a magic spell, or a syllable or portion of scripture containing mystical potentialities." The repetitious words of these songs is very much the same technique used in hypnotism and/or yoga-type meditative preparations. Where Scripture tells us to "meditate on these THINGS", the mantra prepares the mind to "meditate on NOTHING." (see Dave Hunt's book "Occult Invasion") As Dave writes, when a mind is "empty" because its owner is "away" into "nothingness" it leaves it open for somebody else to come and run things. Who are these "somebody else/s"? Satan's demons. These people are quite correct when they speak of being "spirit- filled." They purposefully "prepare" themselves, raise their hands/arms to "receive" these spirits. And the demons are only too willing to comply.

"But," you might object, "these songs have words of praise TO GOD!" Notice that the definition of "mantra" includes "Scripture." Witches have used portions of "Scripture" to cast their spells for years. How about horror flicks and their "golden crosses" etc. Symbols of Christianity. Distortions and perversions of God's purity and holiness. Remember..."LIAR" is Satan's primary name, and his most effective modus operandi. He appears as an "angel of light" and his "ministers, as ministers of righteousness." (2Cor11:14-15) Think about it...what kind of "deception" would it be if the music talked about sex, murder and drugs, in the church? Would it be accepted? Hardly! It needs to look like the "real thing" in order to gain entrance to deceive.

You see...it all started subtly and "innocently." A bunch of hippy "christians" sitting around, rebelling against the establishment, coming from backgrounds in drugs and sex. Not wanting all "that formal ritualistic" stuff like the "hypocrites" participated in at "church." As education was "dumbing down" the school system, these new "christians" were taking God off His (rightful) loftiness of being "high and lifted up"(Is6:1), and lowering Him to a place as "equal" with themselves, "rolling around in the dirt" with them (as depicted in "Jesus" films).

They didn't want "religion" or "doctrine." They didn't want teaching from the Bible (as "Love Song" used to sing). They just wanted to "praise the Lord!" They didn't want God's "holiness" but "feelings." These same "hippies" had been learning the ways of eastern TM and yoga back then. It was only natural, then, for God to be replaced by the occult. So their TM/yoga meditative techniques were incorporated into songs and worship.

Thus, these times of "worship" ...certainly ARE "worship." But hopefully, you are beginning to realize that it is not worship of God Most High! But of Satan and his demons!

An argument will arise; "these worship bands are nothing like the 'hard core' groups." True. But how does Satan infiltrate the "churches" best? Tone it down, sneak it in; but retain all the basic elements. And there you have it. The current phenomenon.

Do we need a high-tech "band" in order to worship? Not hardly! What does Scripture say?

"Oh, worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness! Tremble before Him, all the earth. Say among the nations, "The LORD reigns; The world also is firmly established, It shall not be moved; He shall judge the peoples righteously." (Ps96:9-10) Rather than embracing the world's ways, we are told to, "Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you. I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the LORD Almighty." Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. (2Cor6:17-7:1) Amen!

Date: Nov 30 01:29:01 2004

Linda,

Why do you take the 60's and 70's as reference points? Are you saying that before that time all the things that was happening in churches are free from satanic and fleshly influences?

Do you realize that christianity has been around for 2000 yrs? A lot of things have changed including music and the art forms. If you insist on going back to the pre 60's christian music or songs styles to be pure then why don't we press further down the history to the first century Jewish christian culture in order to get the purest form of music and songs? Does that sound logical to you?

Your analysis have lead to the following conclusions:

1) Electric guitar on distortion mode is from the devil. Anybody plays and enjoys that kind of sound is of the devil. Those with children are going to suffer. They have to employ full time maid to ensure no distortion guitar sound will ever be heard either from the radio or tv. Even better there should be no radio or tv set in the house to completely avoid the risk.

2) Anybody who sings with 'rock' voice is of the devil. So those born with guttural voice have no chance of salvation unless they undergo surgery to change their voice of even better to make them dumb. This will ensure complete salvation?

3) Bass sound will manipulate your body to move according to the devilish and fleshly pattern. This means all the low frequency musical instruments should be destroyed. Only high pitch instruments are heavenly. Bad news to the christians who play bass.

4) People who dance according to the beat of a music are of the devil. You have to dance out of beat to be heavenly. King David was a lousy dancer who didn't know the meaning of tempo, counts, rhythm because he is righteous.

5) Anybody who listens to loud music is of the devil. Any inadequate sound system that fails to achieve uniform sound level in every part of a hall/building must not be used because those nearer to the speakers are going to become children of the devil.

6) Any songs that contain repetitive lines are considered MANTRA and are of the devil. So all christian songs must be in the format of a report to avoid repetition. Any chorus part of a song must be removed.

-------------Linda quote--------------------------------

"Oh, worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness! Tremble before Him, all the earth. Say among the nations, "The LORD reigns; The world also is firmly established, It shall not be moved; He shall judge the peoples righteously." (Ps96:9-10)

Rather than embracing the world's ways, we are told to, "Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you. I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the LORD Almighty." Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. (2Cor6:17-7:1) Amen!

---------------unquote---------------------------------

If this is what you really believe in and you are not a hypocrite then can you please tell us how you live your everyday life? How do you earn your living? Who are the people you're meeting everyday? Who are your real friends? What are your recreational activities? In what ways do you think that you're reflecting Jesus' characters?

Date: Dec 3 09:41:42 2004

Linda anda memerlukan Pelayanan Pelepasan ...

Date: Dec 20 19:38:43 2004

Saudara Rough,

Saya tidak perlu untuk menjawab persoalan emosional dari anda tentang cara hidup saya sehari hari. Anda menyerang orang yang mempunyai pendapat dan buah fikiran yang berbeza dari anda secara peribadi. Bagi anda semua orang kristen adalah hipokrit. Semua orang adalah berpura pura. Cuma anda seorang yang tidak hipokrit bukan? Rough, apapun yang anda katakan kepada saya, saya berani mencabar anda, TUNJUKKAN AYAT ALKITAB YANG MENDUKUNG SETIAP PERNYATAAN ANDA BERKENAAN MUZIK DAN SEGALA YANG BERKAITAN DENGANNYA. JIKA TIADA, JANGAN TERLALU CEPAT MELABELKAN ORANG DENGAN NAMA HIPOKRIT PADAHAL DIRI ANDA ITU DAHULU YANG HARUSNYA MELIHAT TEGURAN DARI FIRMAN ALLAH.

Date: Dec 20 19:44:20 2004

Shalom!

Boleh tolong jelaskan kepada saya Pelayanan Pelepasan yang semacam mana yang saya perlukan? Apakah dengan Deliverance dapat menutup mulut saya untuk membicarakan tentang kesesatan yang sedang merasuk gereja gereja TUHAN? Tidak samasekali. Saya pernah mengadakan pelayanan pelepasan terhadap remaja yang sedang terikat jiwanya dengan muzik rock dan tahu apakah yang di katakan Iblis kepada semua yang hadir disitu? Ia bersumpah akan menyesatkan gereja Tuhan melalui jalan muzik yang ia pakai.. Saudara, inilah jerat setan di akhir zaman. SEDARLAH WAHAI GEREJA TUHAN! Iblis tidak suka jika perbuatan dan penipuannya terbongkar tetapi sebagai anak anak TUHAN, kita tidak harus kalah kepada dia.

Date: Dec 20 23:24:08 2004

Linda,

You have posted your views about the subject. I disagree and therefore provided my own. You have taken bible verses to support your arguments. Does that make you right? I don't think so. Even the devil can use the bible verse to support its ideas. So how do we know that you don't have your own hidden motive for saying what you said?

I never said you were a hypocrite. I asked you that IF you are not a hypocrite then you should not be afraid to share a little more about who you really are. If you are not willing to answer simple questions then any normal person will suspect that you are not what you are. i.e A HYPOCRITE. Do you think that just because you can quote bible verses means that you know exactly what God says or means? The way you responded seems to indicate that you are trying to hide something.

quote:

Originally posted by: Linda
"Bagi anda semua orang kristen adalah hipokrit. Semua orang adalah berpura pura."

When did I ever say the above in this thread? How dare you make baseless accusation? I responded to your views as you presented them. Why now you want to challenge when you were the first who refused to accept the challenge to reveal who you really are?

Date: Dec 21 10:20:57 2004

actually.. orang kristian yg pakai kot di mimbar ja yg hipokrit.. untuk menutup dorang punya kemunafikan.. pakailah bah t-shirt dan jeans koyak di lutut.. be your trueself.. hehe..

Date: Dec 30 06:41:39 2004

brothers,

it's time to pray for each other and for the lost! The return of King Jesus is soon and we must walk by faith, pure and blameless before Him! Let us all repent from our sins..

The signs of the times within these few years- this will happen by God's will...

1) George Bush will be assasinated

2) The world economy will crash terribly and never rise again

3) America will be invaded by Russia and China

There is no time to waste- we must teach all believers the Word of God and believe in it and the power of the Holy Spirit. God's judgement is about to fall on America because it did not repent from its sins, likewise we must repent if we are to escape God's judgement and wrath! Remember, God does not change- He still punishes men for their sins if they do not repent- Jesus Himself proclaimed this message" Repent, for the kingdom of God is hand" (Mark 1:15)

This we must practice- Titus 3:2-4"To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.
For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,"

And Titus 3:9" But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.'

May God bless you all

Date: Jan 2 19:35:43 2005

Diharap anak Tuhan berhati-hati tentang nubuatan. Kalau tidak berlaku bererti yang bernubuat itu ternyata adalah nabi palsu. Dalam perjanjian lama mereka ini harus direjam dengan batu kerana menyesatkan. Oleh itu berhati-hatilah sebelum memberikan nubuatan.

Date: Jan 4 00:52:46 2005

Moore.... Apalah kau cakap ini. Macam kau petik petik perkataan dari revealation dengan tidak mengetahui ertinya. Bagus kau pigi kedai kaling tengok gusti saja. Atau pun kalau kau di Aceh musim itu tsunami baru lah kau rasa betul betul itu revealation. Ha. Ha. ha.

Date: Jan 4 01:43:41 2005

Inilah manusia ni.. orang beri nubuat dan dipaki Tuhan dikatakan nabi paslu.jangankita bersikap kebudak budakan. spt panas baran. nanti padah akan turunkepada kita sendiri. jgn lawan pemimpin. pasal itulah aceh ditsunami.pasala mreka2 ini tidak hormat pemimpin dan keras kepala dan hipokrit dan murdat. mreka ini sampai tentera dari jakarta datangpun masi melawan pemimpin. Alkitab bilang hormatilah pemerintah. kalau tidak.. na.. datang tsumani makan smua penduduk temasuk pemberontak dan org kampung. Tuhan mungkin pakai moore ni. jgn menghakimi. dengar suara Tuhan. saya konsen nanti kami2 yg baik2 ini dan rendah hati ini kena tsumani oleh kerana kesalahan orang lain. ingat Tuhan ...

Date: Jan 4 02:36:40 2005

LInda,

Kau suka linda kan...ehhhh suka linda. ko kenal dia masa ko di Dallas?? Tapi ko balik sini apa yg betul ko suda buat untuk kerajaan sorga di Sabah? kasi tau.. daripada ko mencabar-cabar orang dgn tololgia ko tu kerjakan apa sesuatu la..

Yg ko mencabar mara2 pasal suru org cari ayat alkibat pasal music dan penginjilan tu apa hal? kalau kapla ko begitu that means all christian radio smuapun haram dan salah? dan ko saja yg betul! smua cd and kaset rohani tu salah dan ko punya production betul? i am so sad.Semua itu dan ini salah. kasi tau itu sib perkataan Allah patut kena buang. Pasal perkataan ini berasal dari rarab yg bermaksud..eh ko tia tau ka tu?perkataan kinorohingan patut haram pasal perkataan ini bererti nama tuhan ananism suku dusun..inpun ko tidak tau?

Ko masi bermentaliti kuno..zaman musa.terlalu mementingkan yg kelihatan baik diluar saja. Yesus telah mengatakan bahawa bait Allah akan diruntuhkan dalam masa 1 hari dan membina semula dalam masa 3 hari. dan exactly that what happened when He was crucified on the cross. tabir bait Allah koyak. 40 tahun kemudian bangunan bait Allah hancur sampai sekarang. kenapa.. kerna Tuhan membentuk greja seperti pondok daud. 2 kali dituliskan dalam alkitab;masing2 sekali dalam PL dan PB.. Tuhan akan membina semula pondok Daud(Kau ada teologia cari sendiri ayat itu).Gereja PB adalah berorintasikan praise n worship dan music. Periksa sendiri bagaimana Daud memuji dan menyembah Tuhan. Yg belum pernah terjadi seb itu. Pasal itu bini dia hentam dan critisized Daud. You wanna real life proof? the fastes growing church in the world now is among those who believe in wht i said above. City harvest church Singapore, Planet shaker, hillsongs, some radical church in US.. Even David Yonggi Cho's church is declining in attendance from 700,000 ppl to 100,000 plus nw.how is ur church growth wt ur mentality bro?? ribu2 sudakah yg oi church kau? atau makin banyak yg ikiu kau personally? listen.. if ppl is going away from you it is bcos smthing is wrong. honestly think of this bro..

Paulus katakan kehidupan kita inilah yg menjadi ibadah dan penyembahan kita kepada Tuhan. Memberikan yg terbaik dari kita kepada Tuhan dan hanya kepad Tuhan. Kalau kau pelari, lari kau kuat2. kalau kau boxer jadilah macam hollified. Mau jadi full time untuk Tuhan jadilah pekerja penuh masa sungguh2 untuk Tuhan dan melakukan yg terbaik bro..bukan sekejap ini dan itu. kepala kau masih paradigma 3500 tahun dulu. Memisahkan lewi dan yehuda. U should know wt i am talking about bro.. u from dallas

and u r using those fallen example..of course there will be casuaties. ada yg jatuh.. but look at Micheal W. smith, Cliff richard sun yie etc. we are liveng in a real world bro..wanna excel..the we are expose to all these temptation. u wanna play safe..then that exactly wht u are doing now i guese. by critisizing people wt ur belief.

Sebenarnya tiada guna mau cakap byk dgn ko pasal tiada yg ko buat saya boleh banggakan. hanya pi dallas??? kesian

Pi lah ko dgn teologia kau tu....

Semoga Tuhan dengar suara hati mu dan visimu.

GBU

Date: Jan 5 03:02:25 2005

gila punya Lenny.. mantang2 anak pastor dan sikul di uitm.. selamba ja fire si Linda.. kalau mo berforum tu berforum lah bah betul.. bukan pandai fire orang ja.. mentang2 lah ada album 'waktu' mo tambirang sudah.. ko tingu apa jadi.. sia terikut-ikut sudah cara ko berforum.. hahaha.. mulau..

Date: Jan 6 03:53:20 2005

Hi all,

It is sad because many of us do not stand in God's love and do not agree on the Word of God. Our words spoken here in this forum really does not aligned with how we are supposed to speak according to the Word of God.

Consider this: Colossians 3:8" But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth."

Col 3:12-13" Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye."

And this Colossians 4:6"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man."

We are to comfort each other, edify each other, to be at peace among ourselves.

1 Thessalonian 5:11-13" Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;
And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves."

Regarding prophecies, we are not to despise them. 1 Thessalonian 5:20" Despise not prophesyings."
Instead, we are to test them. (v21) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

If we failed to do this, we became foolish before God.

Matt 7:26-27" And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."

I hope that we can mend our ways before God.

God Bless

Date: Jan 6 05:11:35 2005

Lenny

pertama orang luar selalunya lihat kita luar....

nak memberkati orang perlu kedua-dua dalaman dan luaran sebab kalau orang yang tak kenal kita nampak luaran kita tak baik

biasanya orang anggap dalam pun tak baik.....

tapi sekarang punya jaman sudah berubah ba kan...........

pasal pesyen orang tuaa saja yang kuat komen....

konsert tu ok jangan saja mencuri kemuliaan Tuhan...

kadangkala ada orang suka cari publisti... mau top bah...

siapa tidak kenal penyanyi konsert...ada band lagi tu top ba

Date: Jan 20 00:15:49 2005

i think both the same lah. why want to differntiate? it's up to the listener. God can use many ways to reach us. most importnt is our heart is pure and no hypocrisy. the proud and unmerciful will only become more hypocrite if they don't repent.

Date: Jan 23 01:43:34 2005

Orang dluar sana tak mampu melihat apa yang ada didalam diri kita

keedua duanya penting lah........

Tuhan saja yang taulah kan

Tuhan saja yang menilai....

Date: Jan 25 19:22:14 2005

hello people!

i receive a lot of comment on this topic and its very good to see how our youngsters menjawab menggunakan kepala otak sendiri rather than menggunakan Firman Allah sebagai tunjang kepada setiap yang diluahkan. Terima kasih atas tanggapan anda Lenny, ia merupakan satu tantangan buat saya untuk menyatakan kepada anda bahawa untuk menarik orang kepada Yesus tidak perlu pakai cara duniawi. Ya selau sahaja kita merasa tercabar dengan populariti duniawi yang dapat menarik banyak orang untuk menjadi pengikut maupun pemuja, apakah ia artis maupun kekayaan atau glamor. Lenny, perlu diingat, itu semuanya adalah tipuan Iblis atas gereja yang mana gereja sudah mula memakai cara duniawi untuk menarik orang ke gereja.. tetapi apakah itu alat yang ampuh untuk memenangkan jiwa jiwa? Marilah kita kembali kepada Firman Allah, tujuan saya menulis bukan untuk menimbulkan provokasi melainkan untuk kita kembali kepada FIRMAN ALLAH agar pertuumbuhan gereja bukan di dasari oleh daya tarik muzik dan sebagainya tetapi oleh kerana RohKudus. Mengapa gereja sudah tidak punya kuasa untuk menarik lebih ramai jiwa? Kerana para pendetanya mengandalkan cara duniawi untuk menarik jiwa, bukan oleh kuasa Rohkudus. Lenny, saya kagumi jiwa anda yang berkobar kobar untuk Tuhan tetapi perlu kita ingat, sebagai anak anak Tuhan dan generasi yang mendatang, kita jangan mengkompromikan kebenaran Firman Allah dengan jalan fikiran kita sehingga itu semua membawa kepada kebinasaan kita.

Salam kasih dari saya
Linda

Date: Jan 25 19:28:58 2005

dear actually,

Bukan semua orang yang mamakai kot di gereja semua hipokrit dan bukan semua orang yang menggunakan baju yang koyak rabak itu menurut kebanaran Fiman Allah. Jadi jangan cepat membuat kesimpulan yang mengatakan bahawa semua orang yg menggunakan kot sebagai hipokrit. Tidak! Hipokrit tidak mengenal batas, apakah dia pendeta ataupun hanya ahli gereja biasa, semuanya terdedah kepada sindrom hipokrit. Jadi, kita harus bertambah matang ya. jangan cuma mengikut sedap mulut sahaja ya?

Salam kasih

Linda

Date: Jan 25 19:40:51 2005

Dear Moore,

Thanks for your radicality in the word of God. Yes its true that God's Word must be placed high above all in our life that without it, our soul will be deceived by the devil. Ingatlah akan Firman Yesus,
Masuklah melalui pintu yang sesak itu, kerana lebarlah pintu dan luaslah jalan yang menuju kepada kebinasaan, dan banyak orang yang masuk melaluinya; kerana sesaklah pintu dan sempitlah jalan yang menuju kepada kehidupan, dan sedikit orang yang mendapatinya. (Matius 7:12-13)

Teruskan mengasihi Yesus dan FirmanNya, jika anda terjatuh bangunlah dan berdirilah kokoh sebagai pahlawan iman yang berani kerana Kebenaran Firman Allah.

Salam kasih dari saya.

Date: Jan 26 21:21:48 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Linda
"dear actually, Bukan semua orang yang mamakai kot di gereja semua hipokrit dan bukan semua orang yang menggunakan baju yang koyak rabak itu menurut kebanaran Fiman Allah. Jadi jangan cepat membuat kesimpulan yang mengatakan bahawa semua orang yg menggunakan kot sebagai hipokrit. Tidak! Hipokrit tidak mengenal batas, apakah dia pendeta ataupun hanya ahli gereja biasa, semuanya terdedah kepada sindrom hipokrit. Jadi, kita harus bertambah matang ya. jangan cuma mengikut sedap mulut sahaja ya? Salam kasih Linda"

Saya rasa semua orang mempunyai "jiwa" hipokrit .. WALAU SIAPA PUN ANDA ! percayalah kita semua HIPOKRIT ... tdk kira BERKOT, KOYAK RABAK, TIE, TELANJANG ke semua nya SAMA... mempunyai WARNA DARAH YANG SAMA .. BERNAFAS DARI SUMBER YANG SAMA ....

Date: Jan 26 21:45:04 2005

Shalom!

Benar tu world! Firman Allah mengatakan kepada kita bahawa tidak seorangpun kita yang benar dan semuanya telah menjauh dari Allah dan hadiratnya. Tetapi syukurlah kita tidak dibenarkan oleh usaha kita sendiri tetapi kita dibenarkan oleh YESUS KRISTUS. Sebagai orang yang sudah ditebus dan dibenarkan, marilah kita saling mendorong dan bukan mencari siapa yang hipokrit atau siapa yang tidak. Yang penting marilah kita saling meneguhkan yang lemah dan merendahkan diri di hadapan Allah kerana waktunya sudah amat dekat bagi kita menyambut Yesus datang buat kali yang keduanya.

Salam kasih World!

Date: Jan 31 00:29:52 2005

Saya sentiasa bersedia menyambut kedatangan Tuhan.

Apakah anda juga demikian? Kalau jawapannya 'tidak', bertobatlah.

"Sembahyanglah sebelum kamu disembahyangkan"

Date: Jan 31 01:04:13 2005

hai,

Sembahyang tidak menyelamatkan jiwa kita. Cuma YESUS sahaja yang menyelamatkan kita. Amin? Marilah kita semua semakin menyerahkan diri kepada Yesus sepenuhnya. Halleluya!

Date: Jan 31 02:40:17 2005

ini sudah ada pengajaran baru!!! sembahyang tidak menyelamatkan jiwa!

hebat tapi bingung! bukankah sembahyang itu ertinya doa, dan doa itu ialah komunikasi dengan Tuhan. jadi kalau tidak berdoa artinya tidak berkomunikasi dengan Tuhan. lalu bagaimana Yesus boleh selamatkan orang yang tidak berkomunikasi dengan dia? WOW, dahsyat ini pengajaran! tak payah komunikasi pun boleh selamat?

Date: Jan 31 03:51:55 2005

Halleluya!

Ayatnya dong ayatnya??? Oh ya, saya tahu dari ini ya...

Sembahyanglah kamu sebelum kamu disembahyangkan (Sanusi 3: 4 ) ya? hehehehehee. Jika mau berpegang kepada itu tidak menjadi masalah. Tetapi saya berpegang kepada ini.

Tetapi semua orang yang menerimaNya diberiNya kuasa supaya menjadi anak anak Allah. ( Yohanes 1:12)

Date: Feb 2 23:50:53 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Linda
"hai, Sembahyang tidak menyelamatkan jiwa kita. Cuma YESUS sahaja yang menyelamatkan kita. Amin? Marilah kita semua semakin menyerahkan diri kepada Yesus sepenuhnya. Halleluya!"

Shalom Linda,

Saya kurang jelas dengan pendapat anda seperti yang saya quote di atas. Boleh jelaskan?

Tq, see you soon!

Date: Feb 3 01:26:54 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Linda
"hai, Sembahyang tidak menyelamatkan jiwa kita. Cuma YESUS sahaja yang menyelamatkan kita. Amin? Marilah kita semua semakin menyerahkan diri kepada Yesus sepenuhnya. Halleluya!"

Shalom Linda ...

Memang dlm alkitab tdk secara "langsung" mengatakan sembayang ( doa - kalau itu yg ko maksudkan ) bole menyelamatkan kita .. Tetapi Tuhan menjadikan sembayang ( doa ) sebagai WADAH ( saluran ) utk kita dpt berkomunikasi, minta pertolongan, mengakui dosa, bersyukur, menyembah, memuji .. so kalau kita tdk melakukan hal ini ( berdoa ) bagaimana "keselamatan" yg ada dapt kita pegang sampai pada waktuNya.. Alkitab juga berkali-kali mengingatkan agar kita lebih banyak berdoa ( sembayang ) ... banyak berdoa banyak berkat ........

Jadi berdoa sangat berkait rapat dgn keselamatan kita walaupun ianya bukan termaktub sebagai "SYARAT" tetapi ianya satu "KEMESTIAN".... Thanks ...

Date: Feb 3 03:58:55 2005

DOA ITU PENTING...

ORG KRISTEN ADALAH ORANG YANG BERDOA..SENTIASA BERKOMUKASI DENGAN PENCIPTA....

KESELAMATAN HANYA PADA ORANG YANG MELAKUKAN KEHENDAK-NYA...

Date: Feb 27 21:33:54 2005

saya respect sama kau lah molohing..

Sory for being very provocative.

Namun sombody is fighting for his stand in the right way 'evangelising method' by riduling the use of music and worship.. this is totaly to me nonsence.

we should apply God's method in raching out ppl. some ppl they will turn to God if they feel the peace in the preasence of god through worship.and the preasence of god in worship can be felt in a lot of way..soft music, moderate, even the sound of the rolling of the drum also can bring ppl to God...sometime ppl will belive in God by just witnessing miracles. sometime by just experiencing God's ppl's close knit kindness,fellowship and bonding.and somtime by God's ppl way of giving and caring... which is what a lot of church trying to implement now. Linda.u dindt know that? But surely not by trying to be the champion of the 'right method to evanglise' man. N u mr linda, how many ppl hv become beliver after u approach them with ur version of the 'kebenaran' of the Word? I want to maintain my stand that God is really moving at this end time and that you look for your self for the record that those church around the globe that is grawing very fast is the church who uses God methods.. good music.at time u see them almost like perfect performance bt then more soul turn to God.

Recently there was a Planet shaker in KL.. and i tell o.. they were really radical man.. by sib standard they are out to the north pole. bt then ppl were drawing to God. and this year this australian team will be KK in November.. You better pray for your soul protection.. nanti ko kena imparted dgn org2 ini.

If have gon through a real revival then u know this issue is nt new. those ppl will sream and play loud music.they pray loud,sing loud, shout really loud. some even lost their voice. The bible said' make a joyfull noise'.. and u said music never destined to be used for penginjilan.. pity..

somemore we, the church should have real good time and fun in the preasence oF god.

Date: Mar 2 09:30:08 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Linda
"dear actually, Bukan semua orang yang mamakai kot di gereja semua hipokrit dan bukan semua orang yang menggunakan baju yang koyak rabak itu menurut kebanaran Fiman Allah. Jadi jangan cepat membuat kesimpulan yang mengatakan bahawa semua orang yg menggunakan kot sebagai hipokrit. Tidak! Hipokrit tidak mengenal batas, apakah dia pendeta ataupun hanya ahli gereja biasa, semuanya terdedah kepada sindrom hipokrit. Jadi, kita harus bertambah matang ya. jangan cuma mengikut sedap mulut sahaja ya? Salam kasih Linda"

Dear Linda,

actually sia cuma menyatakan itu dalam nada sarkastik sebab ada band yg pandai2 masuk kampung sana KB yg cakap begitu sama org kampung. tsk.. tsk.. tsk..

Date: Mar 2 09:36:27 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Lenny
" those ppl will sream and play loud music.they pray loud,sing loud, shout really loud. some even lost their voice. The bible said' make a joyfull noise'.. and u said music never destined to be used for penginjilan.. pity.. somemore we, the church should have real good time and fun in the preasence oF god. "

make a joyful voice but did The Biblle say make a joyful noise until you lost your voice?

Date: Mar 9 09:00:39 2005

Dear Make,

make a joyful voice but did The Biblle say make a joyful noise until you lost your voice?
Did your bible said 'make a silent joyful noise'?

Cos i dindt say make a joyful noise until you lost your voice? You said that!

Date: Mar 10 20:47:48 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Lenny
those ppl will sream and play loud music.they pray loud,sing loud, shout really loud. some even lost their voice. The bible said' make a joyfull noise'.. and u said music never destined to be used for penginjilan.. pity.. somemore we, the church should have real good time and fun in the preasence oF god. "

Date: Mar 14 20:46:54 2005

those ppl will sream and play loud music.they pray loud,sing loud, shout really loud. some even lost their voice... (unintentionaly) not 'make a joyful noise until you lost your voice' (intentionaly)

Never mind...earlier we are talking bout 'berdoa' yg tdak menyelamatkan.. God is using all kind of method to save people... saying berdoa is menyelamatkan.. in one angle there is truth but without proper explaination its confusing people.. so Linda you have to explain your point here.... I mean.. look.. i became a Christian by saying the prayer of 'accepting Jesus as savior and God'. surely we are not saved just doing good things or live a clean life.. You from some teological scholl should know from old testament prayer and fasting is the way how Israel repented.

Date: Mar 16 08:19:45 2005

Ternyata GMB masi hebat dalam pelayanan. 2 malam berturut di lawas, sarawak penuh gereja SIB bandar lawas. Bagi yg tdak sempat join tia apa, taun depan masi ada lagi. dengar2 GMB tiada knsert di KK. napa? ada yg tahu? GMB bilang mula2 ada. sekali sampai di malaysia diberitahu p. pinang, Lawas dan Tawau ja.

bagaimanapun bukan saja hebat tapi GMB menjadi inspirasi ppp di Lawas untuk terus melayani Tuhan dalam muzik dan pujian dan penyembahan di sini.Berupa konsert tapi memberkati ppp.

Date: Sep 19 02:39:08 2005

Umat nasrani harus mempunyai pengertian yang lebih dalam tentang agamanya agar jangan menyesal kelak.

Date: Apr 20 22:29:15 2010

shallom teman-teman semua.

dah lama saya nak cari web site macam ini. saya pun ada juga yang nak dikongsikan ni. sebab sekitar bulan sep ni youth kami akan mengadakan konsert pujian penyembahan( Youth Music Rally) selama 1 jam lebih. jadi nak tanya dengan teman2 sekali. bagaimanakan kaedah penganjuran sesebuah konsert tersebut. dan juga perkara yang perlu dititik beratkan. sebab saya takut motif utama konsert ini untuk menyelamatkan jiwa-jiwa para belia untuk kembali ke jalan yang benar tidak tercapai. thank...

Date: Apr 28 17:37:12 2019

buat konsert pujian penyembahan tapi kehidupan sendiri bukan penuji dan penyembah kpd Tuhan maka si iblis sangat suka kerana ia akan mengambil alih tugas kutk memuji dia si iblis rakan di sebelah.Perkataan pun langsung nda membangun sesama tetapi mw jadi adakan konsert pujian dan penyembahan..Iblis ketawa terbahak-bahak.

Iblis pun pandai menyamar sebagai malaikat terang. 2 kor 11:14

hati2 dengan konsert rohani,kelihatan rohani tetapi kadang2 menyesatkan dan mematikan rohani.