Praise and worship session VS christian concert

Date: Nov 7 06:49:15 2003

Praise and worship session VS christian concert

Date: Nov 8 20:04:59 2003

hi moore,

Shalom ... macam ni, bagaimana pendapat moore sendiri, apakah perbezaan antara Pujian dan penyembahan dengan Konsert Kristen ? boleh sharekan ... hehehhehe nak tanya balik ni

Ok lah bagi sayalah kan moore, memang ada perbezaannya dimana Pujian Dan penyembahan itu MELIBATKAN secara langsung jemaat yang ada pada masa itu manakala KONSERT pula tidak secara langsung melibatkan PENONTON ( ya panggil penonton saja sebab namanya juga konsert).. TETAPI intinya adalah sama iaitu UNTUK MEMULIAKAN NAMA TUHAN YESUS. Kalau dalam konsert terpulang pada penyanyi itu sendiri sama ada mengajak para penonton utk sama menyanyi memuji dan menari, tetapi dalam kebaktian pujian dan penyembahan, itu sudah jelas bahawa SELURUH yang hadir terlibat sama dalam memuji dan menyembah.. NAMUN sekali lagi saya ingin nyatakan bahawa INTI dari semua ini ( kebaktian pujian n penyembahan & Konsert ) ADALAH UNTUK MEMUJI, MENYEMBAH, MENINGGIKAN, MEMULIAKAN DAN MENGAGUNGKAN NAMA TUHAN.

Dan selalunya dalam pujian dan penyembahan kebanyakan yang hadir adalah mereka yang sudah MENERIMA TUHAN sebagai juruselamat dlm kehidupan mereka TETAPI dalam Konsert seperti yg diadakan di Center Point oleh Radix Band yang lalu, ada diantara mereka yang hadir BELUM PERNAH mendengar dan menerima TUHAN YESUS sebagai juruselamat, so bagi saya kedua-dua hal ini penting dimana dalam pujian dan penyembahan KITA DIKUATKAN dan IMAN kita diPULIHKAN, manakala dalam konsert kita BOLEH MENJANGKAU JIWA-JIWA melalui musik yang kita gunakan untuk kemuliaan Nama TUHAN.

hmm bagaimana dengan anda Moore ...

Date: Nov 13 19:46:25 2003

To respond to this maybe we can ask ourselves what actually do we expect when attending a Praise&Worship session and a Christian concert?
To be honest my expectation would be the combination of the following (not in the order of importance):
1)Great music
2)Godly songs
3)Powerful sound system
4)Solid performance
5)Warm atmosphere (Mutually encouraging)
6)Enthusiastic and responsive crowd
7)Great effects
8)Lots of Gods words but not preachy kind.
9)Godly, authoritative, flexible, witty, fresh, unpredictable lead singers.
9)The presence of God.
10)Time for special ministering.

Looking at the list, for me there is really not much fundamental difference between the two. Of course there are other issues that are equally important: prayer, evangelization, spiritual warfare etc. but that would hopefully be covered by others in this forum.
As the body of Christ our supreme objective when we get together in both of these gatherings is to build each others up. Christ as the Head will direct every member to mutually encourage,motivate and admonish each other.

However when we try to define who and who supposed to attend it, it will be like attempting to separate the real Christians, phony Christians, immature Christians, legalistic Christians, fake Christians and plain non-Christians. To attempt to do that is like trying to remove the weeds that grow alongside the wheat. And Jesus advice is don't because when you do that you will uproot the wheat as well. (Matt. 13:24-30) What are the wheat supposed to do then? To continue growing and producing the kind of fruit that will prove who they really are. No wonder Christians are supposed to be exercising their patience and love for their enemies regardless of the circumstances. (That's the tough one!!!)

Well that's my opinion. Love to hear yours!
GBU.

Date: Nov 13 20:37:42 2003

Thanks BOB with ur posting, I AGREE WITH U !!

Date: Nov 14 08:13:21 2003

Yes-I agree with both of you. It is good to hear sound judgement on this matter. From what I've known, there are differences and similarities between the two. I've wanted to get opinion on this matter because currently there is a growing trend nowadays where Christians cannot distinguish which is which.

Some events which are called Praise and worship sessions were conducted in a concert manner; emphasis of the event was on the musical performance. Obviously, it should be called christian concert. But I will detailed this out later.

I would like more views from others...

Date: Nov 18 01:41:32 2003

HI bob!

So what do u think Mr Bob? R these praise and worship and concert same?

Praise the lord, U seem to be knowledgeable but which one you r standing?

2 me they are just the same. As long we r glorifyng the name of the Lord wether in concert or in praise n worship event, it just the same. concert perharps loud music and aggresive and the other one is in other way but honestly if we focus our heart to the lord then that's it! no diffirent.

GBU. Love

Date: Nov 18 01:45:27 2003

hi eagle,

wah terbang tinggi nampaknya ko hari ni. ONLINE habisss...

hmm memang praise&worship dan concert tu SAMA iaitu MEMULIAKAN TUHAN but secara AM dan UMUM nya keadaan tersebut berbeza ..... hmmmm dan saya fikir pandangan c Bob tu memang betul ...

Date: Nov 18 20:24:14 2003

Hi Eagle,

I would like to respond by considering the actual reasons for having both the session/event.
First, why do we organize the events?
I believe there are several basic reasons:
1)To follow what the Bible teaches about the need for Christians meet together and build each others up. I think the music,singing, dancing and other art performances are all part of the "building each others up".
2)To evangelize. i.e To tell people who have never heard about Jesus Christ and give them the opportunity to receive Him. This may include sermon or personal testimony.
3)To call out those Christians who have not been active in their Christians lives to begin to contribute in more direct ways.
4)To ask God by faith to have the manifestation of His presence where supernatural activities can happen resulting in repentance, forgiveness, reconciliation, restoration and healing.
5)To forge a cooperation between different Christian organizations and denominations so that relationship on personal level can be created and developed and therefore making future cooperations easier.

All the above should be addressed and happened in a properly organized event. The problem is trying to have them in proper balance. Some people may concern more on evangelization and they think the others are not so important. Other think that manifestation is the most important. The Christian kids (including me, ha,ha,ha...) who probably have strong self image would tend to just loosen up and enjoy themselves may feel a little turned down by heavy preaching or sad testimony. The list can just go on and on. Emotions can get quite complicated you know. So you see, how to satisfy everybody?

I suspect the question of whether the two are the same or not has more to do with how to decide on the correct emphasis for a particular congregation/audience/crowd. It is a question of priority. It is not easy but it is a challenge a serious Christian can't refuse. Oh yes!!!

So coming back to your question, you still want me to make a stand? Sorry to disappoint you but my answer is both yes & no. It is not up to me to decide. It really depends on the organizer. A smart move would be to have a very flexible team who can adapt according to the needs of the moment. Some people call this "the leading of the Holy Spirit". Is this easy to do? Try and see yourself and share with us.

Can someone out there share personal experiences in their involvement in Praise&Worship sessions or Christian concerts?

Thanks & GBU.

Date: Nov 19 00:47:16 2003

Hi guys!

Hmmm..

Mr. Bob, good and interesting points.

What do u think about Ron Konely's recording concert/praise&worship. was that concert or praise & worship? I mean the event produced praise & worship oreinted but more like a concert musical arrangement? I understand it basically for recording purposes but still the musical arrangement highlight some personal skill/solo or showmanship. Do u see any diferent between concert and church praise&worship in this caes?

Actually.. there are so many things that I wanna say here but I think I'm running out of time..

I will continue again guys...gbu

I'LL BE BACK

Date: Nov 19 17:44:18 2003

hi eagle n Bob,

SUSAH SUSAH PANGGIL SAJA LAH "KONSERT PUJIAN DAN PENYEMBAHAN" Selesai masalah ...

Terfikirkah kita bahawa kadang2 kalau dikatakan KONSERT , itu BERBICARA tentang BISNIS ??? CARI SIKIT UNTUNG ??? ya lah konsert tu memang utk TUHAN, tetapi PERJALANAN sesuatu konsert tu TAK SEMUA FREE, PERALATAN sapa nak bagi FREE, then TEMPAT macam d center point SAPA NAK BAGI FREE, mesti sewa kan ??? dan TIKET DIJUAL tu bukannya FREE, dah ada kata "JUAL" bisnis lah tu ... TETAPI ITU KAN BISNIS YANG BAIK JUGA ... utk MEMPERKEMBANGKAN BAKAT2 ROHANI kita juga ... (lepas ni ada lak lagi yg cakap pasal ni pula (bisnis) hahahaha saja buka minda kita ya ging !!! hmm takut pula sia cakap pasal bisnis n campur rohani ni .... baik diam saja lah ...

SO PENDIRIAN SAYA, SECARA APA YANG KITA LIHAT DENGAN MATA KASAR, MEMANG BERBEZA, TETAPI IA DISAMAKAN DENGAN TUJUAN AKHIR DARI KEDUA-DUA KEADAAN TERSEBUT IAITU UTK TUHAN, KALAU ADA KONSERT YANG BUKAN UTK KEMULIAAN TUHAN TU LAIN LAH.

KALAU ADA KONSERT LINKIN PARK D SABAH KE, KONSERT DANIEL BEDINGFIELD KE (eh dia pinjam nama saya tu) SAYA DATANG JUGA SEBAB MUSIK mereka .. tapi tak lah sampai jerit2 hilang akal, cam merekalah segalanya ..

SEe Ya ...

Date: Jan 4 23:19:50 2004

wow...what a topic..sorry guys, i haven't read all your comment...but let me give u all mine. I'm not into the idea of "P&W VS Christian COncert" why must the word "versus" be used? saying that is like making a huge different between those two. Both are related to music..both are used for God's glory...but both have different focus. P&W is during sunday service...Concert normally used for envagelism...kalau dua2 memuliakan Tuhan...then, why must they conflict each other? However..ada org yg tepat diletakkan di pelayanan P&W...dan ada yg tepat diletakkan di pelayanan semacam concert penginjilan. u know, some people is a crowd-puller...they can comunicate 2 the audience...they can make the audience jump..they can be exteremely good in music...but some may not be good in music..they may not have a good?siti-nurhaliza kind of voice but hey...GOD use them to their maximum..nah, this kind of people ngam kalau di letakkan di pelayan P&W...they're more sensitive with the flowing..compare to some (hehehe...) anyway, we can't avoid the facts that u need to have a good music & good song & a good front line to attract crowd to come for a concert..emm...anyway, u guys think la aa. Cuma itu lah, apa yg memuliakan Tuhan, apa yg menghasilkan buah...nda salah bagi saya...semuanya adalah SATU..tetapi dikerjakan oleh org2 yg berbeza...

Date: Jan 4 23:41:02 2004

hebat ko ghost_not3! tapi apa meaning ko pakai namaa ghost_not3? mungkin ko sama dgn si ........! hehehehe...

your idea 'bout the 'verses' is totally ngam.... I like it... Gue setuju! jadi apa kata yg lain???????

Date: Jan 6 23:37:07 2004

MUNGKIN INI LEBIH TEPAT :
Praise and worship session FREN christian concert
ekekeke

Date: Jan 21 21:15:01 2004

ello....
interesting topic, i believe many of us would interchange the meaning of concert and praise & worship session. to see things in common, of course this two use songs and music for the event, however the purpose of the event would be different.

my point is, this two event i strongly believe need to be differentiated. Praise and worship is for the people of God to worship HIM which reflects that this group of people must have known HIM personally - God's Follower.

Concert, however, may pull a huge crowd and create a great oppurtunity to share God's salvation - which is good in a way... but unless this group is follow-up then they cannot be God's Follower. otherwise it will be as good as Westlife concert - we all entertained - aren't we??

so, if it is for Praise and Worship, do it appropriately, because it was God's Follower - His disciple who received the gifts of the spirit NOT the crowd. The crowd comes and go.

At this point, i really encourage youth leaders to really think about your intented concert or P/W session - what is it that you want to achieve thru your activities? think and pray...

May God Bless you and your ministry.
Stomp

Date: Jan 21 21:31:20 2004

Hi everyone! It has been a long time since I've been here posting...he he
It is good that all of us have really understand the difference between a Christian concert and a Praise and Worship session. I have wanted to know what lies in the hearts and minds of youth when they attend these 2 gatherings. To be honest with everyone, I have observed a growing trend among us to incorporate Concert style worship. Not that I am against it, but it has been become unbalanced, and will continue to be so unless there is an awareness among us to keep a healthy spiritual diet.
You see, I like concert style, but it has become a bit of the norm nowadays that I can't really worship God in quietness and reverence with other believers. Imagine our sunday services done concert style week after week after week. Heh, how I long for a time when all believers could stand and just lift our hands together to God, in silence, with just a guitar strumming away a small chorus of Amazing Grace... And many people could never understand when I said "Let's do it in a praise and worship style" because they would do another concert style 65% of the time.
Just weight this- there's a lot of difference between Robin Mark's worship sessions and GMB concert- if anyone could discern this spiritually. I don't know why, but I suspect that sometimes we can't slow down and let God's Spirit speak to us when we worship, and a concert environment certainly does not encourage this interaction with the Holy Spirit.
Let's settle for a more balance events and programs.
God Bless

Date: Feb 20 22:21:46 2004

Hi Moore,

I have a direct question for you. What do you think if a few bands that consist of christians have an opportunity to perform in an open concert with a straightforward objective of giving a good show? All the songs will be of christians values but there is no religious kind of atmosphere. The music is loud and punchy suited for those young energetic people. Are you comfortable with this setting? Will you attend one? Will you be able to just relax, enjoy the music and have a great time? Tell us what you feel.

GBU.

Date: Feb 25 07:08:38 2004

hi...i wanna reply to your question Bob. Well, if there's any event like that i would be the 1st person to go..hehehe...anak2 Tuhan should be greater than secular musicians coz our Father is a great God!. so, go ahead with that secular event although it doesn't look "spiritual" but take opportunity to let God be known by our testimony (i.e. our attitude, the way we talk etc)...most of all...HUMBLE...be HUMBLE..i've been learning that since last year...so Bob, i don't mind if u guys join such event...memang ada yang komen...but always remember...what ever things we do/say here..while we all still alive, we gonna be responsible for it in the end of the day...Tuhan tanya tu. emm...i hope i won't offend anyone..hehehe...all the best...make God proud of us...

p/s: "ghost note" is a term used in a drum notation/music notation...got it? :p

Date: Feb 26 01:20:20 2004

Moore - ghost_not3: same person? What a wonderful world of internet!

U are absolutely right, Sir! God will indeed expect us to give the account of our lives to Him. Are you looking forward to that? We all should be saying out loud YESSSSSS!!!

HUMBLE is such a wonderful word. But we must add, it must be through God's eye not from human's.

Date: Feb 28 21:51:25 2004

ghost_not3 - moore = 1 person ... Betul kah ni ghost ???????

Date: Feb 29 22:13:16 2004

nope...i'm NOT moore...i'm ghost_not3...anyway, have u guys heard about NTC(National Transformation Conference)? guys...God gonna do a great work this month....our nation will be changed...believe in that...do pray for those people who involve in the conference...please...we wanna see God's kingdom b manifested in our nation...God bless...and again..i'm not moore..apa la

Date: Mar 1 22:02:01 2004

Hi! Bob... i want to give my opinion over your situation.

i believe what moore is trying to differentiate is the different between concert and praise & worship, unless we are certain - what are the differences, then we would know how to focus or align ourselves accordingly to the occasion.

Above all, let's know what are the essentials and accessories in ministry. Focus on the essentials rather than accessory. when the 12 disciples bring multitude to God and be baptised, there wasn't any praise n worship or concert going on - simply their pure heart and the Holy Spirit. my point is - let us work on the essential not on the accessory of ministry. do not get me wrong either - i'm not saying praise n worship or concert are not important but rather - saving those soul who are going to hell would be what God want to see - correct me if i'm wrong -many are dying without God everywhere, everyday. we claim ourselves as Christian, are we truly one??? how salty is the world around us - how bright has we shine HIS light?? or has we become like the world??

Date: Mar 2 02:13:05 2004

Hi stomp,

You have valid points there. Recognizing the essentials and accessories is part of growing up in the faith. The reason I asked the question to Moore is sometimes christians got so uptight about so many things/situations to the extend of declaring them off limits. Meaning to say we draw up our own boundaries. Boundary is good but it must grow with maturity. Otherwise who will be the christians brave enough to storm the gate of hell in so many dark places in our city? Now I don't claim to have reached the level of faith to do that but at the same time why should we limit what God has for us? The evidence of your faith is the amount of preparation that you are willing to commit, right? So if we continue to say things which are in essence only reflect our inner fearfulness then we are basically denying our faith.

Let's make this discussion very practical. How would you describe an "acceptable" christian in today's age? Is it from his outward appearance? The way he talks? The people he mixes with? The denomination he belong to? We all tend to evaluate based on external qualities because of lack of real relationship. It is so easy to give passing comment on others but do we really bother to know the real reason for someone's behaviour?

I totally believe what you said about the importance of saving lives. But if we say "saving lives" what do we actually mean? Is it enough just being able to convince someone to utter "I accept Jesus as my saviour"? Is it as far as seeing him baptized? Or is it until he is able to produce the fruit of character? Or is it until he is able to become a spiritual father to someone else?

These are tough questions but are inevitable if we are going to move forward. My personal view is the biggest problem we face now is how to communicate and model the true righteousness and spiritual values to the younger generation. I don't know about you but for the most part of my life, christian life seems to revolve around meetings and sunday services. But the truth is, it is all about building the right kind relationship with whosoever called human. There is a saying, "Build a bridge before criticizing". Meaning build a real relationship before you can actually provide any useful critics. I'd like to write further but time is running short. Maybe you can give your feedback and we continue later?

See you and God bless!

Date: Mar 6 22:55:53 2004

ghost_not3 :
i'm not moore..apa la

gidong :
relaxz dong ... nyanya aja ...

Date: Mar 7 08:41:48 2004

RE: Praise and worship session VS christian concer

Date: Mar 8 05:52:52 2004

RE: Praise and worship session VS christian concert

Date: Mar 12 01:12:01 2004

Hi! bob, what would Jesus think??

we are here not to entertain or to make a show. i'm sorry to disappoint you, but Jesus is coming soon. We should be doing God's will now - that is to tell everyone about Jesus. i don't believe doing a christian concert show will bring anyone to Christ but a one-to-one friendship evangelism and life example with the power of God manifested through healing and prayer, that is more important. i don't mean to offend you but really time is running short.

God Bless.

Date: Mar 12 01:51:37 2004

At last the guy who started the subject is here again. Hi Moore! While you were away several guys have been kind enough to share their views.

I appreciate you views Moore. But I kind of sense that your view will narrow down christian lives into a very serious and gloomy life. Personally I believe that Jesus was a very exciting person. How would you explain the fact that he had no problem mixing with all kind of people. People just loved him. If you notice in the bible nobody dislike Jesus because of his personality. People hated him for his unbending principle. But as a person he was extremely likeable. He was the kind of guy who is so fun to be with. Do you really believe that you have to be serious 24 hrs a day in order to reflect Jesus character? I doubt that very much. If I may ask you, does children like to be with serious person? Of course not. The fact that children loved to be with Jesus proved that he was a cheerful person. Jesus is a perfect man. He displayed full range of emotions while on earth. And he did that with perfect balance. But we cannot do that on our own, alone. We need others to balance out our emotions. I believe to be effective as a witness we have to understand this. Otherwise we will easily lose our cheerfulness seeing so much of despair happening around us.

God bless.

Date: Mar 12 16:02:12 2004

moore :
i don't believe doing a christian concert show will bring anyone to Christ but a one-to-one friendship evangelism and life example with the power of God manifested through healing and prayer, that is more important.

gidong :
Jangan ingat cara TUHAN untuk memenangkan jiwa TERBATAS ! Mungkin christian concert boleh menjadi salah satu daripadanya ....

Date: Mar 12 20:05:59 2004

moore,

Kau tidak percaya christian concert boleh menginjil dan hanya one to one saja cara yg betul? YOU ARE WRONG. Cara boleh jadi banyak.tapi tujuan hanay satu. KKR? Siaran radio? kaset /cd? Majalah? buku? concert? kalau semua itu salah, saya tia tahu kau ni hidup di mana?

Date: Mar 13 21:38:09 2004

ha! ha! ha!

mari kita melihat pada Yesus,

Dia fokus kepada 12 orang muridnya bukan kepada orang ramai, Yesus memuridkan 12 muridnya bukan orang ramai. oleh itu, 12 murid Yesus (selain Yudas) yang membawa kebangunan rohani pada hari pentakosta bukan orang ramai. tetapi orang ramai tetap orang ramai. ada yang diselamatkan dan dibaptis dan dimuridkan dan seterusnya menjadi murid Yesus, ada juga orang ramai yang terus ingin mencari tanda-tanda dan mempertikaikan perkerjaan Tuhan. itu dimasa Kisah para rasul.

tetapi pada masa kita ini, marilah kita berkonsert untuk menyelamatkan orang ramai, mungkin pemuridan dan personal evangelism terlalu kolot untuk abad ini, tidak sesuai, konsertkan best, meriah, ramai orang datang, hei banyak yang melompat dan angkat tangan, itukan respon, let the joy flow.

permodenkanlah perkerjaan Tuhan.

berkonsertlah kita sampai pagi.

ha!ha!ha!

Date: Mar 13 22:01:13 2004

apa ni??? berkonsert sampai pagi? berkonsert untuk memenangkan jiwa? apa la...

ada baca alkitab ka korang??? pasal konsert pun nak bertekak? ada kah berkonsert di dalam alkitab? pasal mana? ayat mana? Yesus menyanyikah di masa itu?

hei! orang zaman ini, konon berkonsert, ni, ha! mata sendiri yang lihat budak-budak tu mengangkat tangan nampakkan punggung, kedapatan pula tu, ada yang meraba, kononnya terlanggar, apa ni??? ternyata inilah buahnya bila kita cetek Firman. (harap-harap perkara ini terjadi di tempat tertentu saja bukan di tempat kamu, gidong.)

tak apalah, bersukarialah, hai pemuda, dalam kemudaanmu, biarlah hatimu bersuka pada masa mudamu, dan turutilah keinginan hatimu dan pandangan matamu, TETAPI KETAHUILAH BAHWA KERANA SEGALA HAL INI ALLAH AKAN MEMBAWA ENGKAU KE PENGADILAN. (Pengkotbah 11:9)

tak payah lah nak bertekak, apa yang betul dan apa yang tidak, hasilkan buah Roh dalam hidupmu.

Date: Mar 13 22:09:50 2004

hi!...

hidup konsert!!!! hidup konsert!!!! hidup konsert!!!!

kita berkonsert, mari!! mari!!, datanglah beramai ramai, kita akan diberkati, banyak jiwa akan diselamat secara automatic, Firman Tuhan??? he! he! hari minggu saja. hari lain, kita berkonsert, mari lagi... kita pergi beramai-ramai...

hidup konsert!!!! hidup konsert!!!! hidup konsert!!!!

Date: Mar 14 05:51:27 2004

Active :
hei! orang zaman ini, konon berkonsert, ni, ha! mata sendiri yang lihat budak-budak tu mengangkat tangan nampakkan punggung, kedapatan pula tu, ada yang meraba, kononnya terlanggar, apa ni??? ternyata inilah buahnya bila kita cetek Firman. (harap-harap perkara ini terjadi di tempat tertentu saja bukan di tempat kamu, gidong.)

gidong :
Hi Active, harap jangan salah faham dgn komen saya sebelum ini yg menyatakan bahawa konsert "rohani" boleh dijadikan cara utk menyampaikan injil keselamatan, Kenyataan saya itu bukan satu "Fakta" tetapi lebih kepada apa yang saya fikirkan dan apa yang saya perhatikan sendiri, saya percaya kalau cara Tuhan untuk menjangkau jiwa amat berlainan dan saya sangat yakin ada diantara jiwa-jiwa yang dijangkau dan mendengar injil melalui konsert "rohani", so kalau konsert itu menghasilkan buah dengan memenangkan jiwa bagi Yesus ya apa salahnya teruskan pelayanan dibidang itu bagi mereka yang terpanggil dan berbakat dlm bidang musik... tiada masalah kan ...

Dan seperti komen anda diatas yg anda nampak muda-mudi dlm konsert yg angkat tangan sampai nampak punggung, hmmm konsert tu konsert sekular atau konsert kristen ??? kalau konsert sekular SAYA TIDAK HERAN, kalau konsert tu memang konsert Kristen KENAPA pandangan Active tertumpu pada hal2 "daging" sampai punggung pun mo diperhati ekekekekeke, then ko nampak org berpura2 meraba lagi, ini sedikit menunjukkan yang ko mo hadiri konsert dgn fokus bukan pd lagu2 yg disampaikan tetapi lebih kepada tabiat dan tingkahlaku penonton, betulkah ? hmmm no lah itu pandangan saya saja bukan mo menghakimi ko but ada baiknya kalau kita pi konsert rohani, FOKUS PADA PUJIAN yang disampaikan sehingga iblis tak punya ruang utk memesongkan tujuan asal kita dtg ke konsert tersebut .... hmmm thanks ....

Date: Mar 15 02:42:35 2004

la... gidong, konsert yang dibincangkan di sini, konsert rohani ler... apa pulak melencong ke konsert duniawi, kalau konsert duniawi yang meraba-raba tu lantak lah... memang mereka menuju kepada kehancuran pun, kalau tak dijangkau, tapi ni konsert rohani, pun juga gejala sosial.

ler.... gidong, kalo gejala sosial di depan mata, ko tak kisah ke??? di manakah keperhatinan seseorang yang matang rohani, di lutut???? kecian... kalau macam ni lah, hah!!! perbanyakkanlah konsert.

kita tak buta lah - dan kita tak pandang ringan kalau ada gejala sosial, murka Tuhan nampak apabila rumahnya digunakan untuk perniagaan - thank God ini adalah zaman rahmatnya... masih ada waktu untuk pertobatan. bertobatlah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Date: Mar 15 19:54:23 2004

hi people...me here. I've read your comments & humble opinion on this topic..each of u guys gotta point there. CUma ni la saya mau remind kita semua. Kita boleh saja organize the "biggest christian concert" in history...kita boleh saja adakan KKR yang "paling ramai kedatangannya"...the number can be great..the event can be organized perfectly...but my question, adakah Tuhan memanifestkan kehadiran-Nya? Youth may jump! jump! & jump! during concert..but wait untill the worship part comes...how many of them actually enjoy worship? God is seeking true worshipper...not true praiser...not true musician..not great organizer...but God seeks true worshipper...Tuhan tidak mencari penyembahan...Tuhan mencari PENYEMBAH...bukan sekadar pemuji. Same goes to kebaktian/KKR...siapa pun pengkhotbah yg diundang, berapa lama pun persiapan yg diadakan...for me it mean nothing if God didn't manifest Himself that time. So, it's not the quantity thatr eally counts...it's the QUALITY. As for Radix band..God has use u guys for a special purpose...tell those youth that what God need is a worshipper...a BLAMELESS worshipper. For those who think that christian concert is not an effective way for envangelism..isn't it limiting/doubting God's way of touching souls? KKR/ sunday service is no different from a christian concert if God didn't manifest Himself...mcm mini-concert la. So, i believe...God can work anywhere when He feels at home. Haa..God will only present in concert/sunday service when He feels @ home..di mana rumah Bapa? di Syurga la...so, di rumah Bapa ada apa? ada malaikat2 & anak2Nya yang menyembah-Nya 24jam tanpa henti setiap hari...so, God will feel at home when He sees that there're true worshippers in that concert/service...bila Tuhan datang...mukjizat PASTI terjadi...hidup pasti berubah!...sekurang-kurangnya terjadi perubahan minda/pertobatan...org yg tidak mengenal TUhan pun boleh bertobat apabila TUhan manifestkan diri-Nya. So, guys...that's my opinion...we cannot say this or that is an effective way of envangelism...yg penting...Tuhan benar2 hadir & we all can feel it. For Bob & the rest of Radix band...be God's excellent servant...keep it up guys!...biar bumi Sabah penuh dengan kemuliaan Tuhan.

Date: Mar 15 22:20:09 2004

Active :
ler.... gidong, kalo gejala sosial di depan mata, ko tak kisah ke??? di manakah keperhatinan seseorang yang matang rohani, di lutut???? kecian... kalau macam ni lah, hah!!! perbanyakkanlah konsert.

gidong :
ekekekke nampak sangat ko marah gan aku ni, ampuni aku ya active kalau komen sia sebelum ni melukakan hati ko .... emmmm, gejala sosial dlm konsert kalau dah terjadi - CARI penyelesaiannya bukan merumitkan keadaan.... sebab siapapun kita punyai kelemahan sendiri, mungkin itu kelemahan dorang, so jelaskan apa yg perlu utk menghindari gejala tersebut dpt diatasi gitu ...

, pasal lutut2, matang rohani tu sia tak mo cakap nanti sampai ke tua tak abis2 ... so ambil yg menjadi berkat dan yg tak berkat tu adalah dari manusia (kelemahan) ....

Date: Mar 19 00:28:11 2004

bukan gaduhlah fanatic jus

argument so you must shares with us what have done with diorang tu yag sdh jatuh dlm dosa apakah kau sndiri sudah ambil bahagian??? tahukah kamu bahawa forum ni juga salah satu untuk menjangkau mereka2 tu maksud sya forum ni juga boleh digunakan untuk memberkati dan membawa kebenaran Tuhan kita hanya bgi pendapat a btgilah pendapt ko yg memberkati..kk

Date: Mar 19 01:12:01 2004

AMIN! AMIN! saya setuju.

Forum ini juga boleh digunakan untuk menjangkau jiwa2. jadilah garam;garam yg beresensikan Kristus. bukan penggaduh

Date: Mar 19 01:29:38 2004

masih jawapan tidak jelas................. sorilah ini macam...... kau pun tidak tahu apa yng kau cakap...........

Date: Mar 19 01:51:09 2004

Eh.. merajuk rohani.

adik ko tu awal juga mau chow?

Date: Mar 19 02:59:18 2004

emm..hi..guys..kawan2 semua. Memang tidak ada yg sempurna di sini...melalui forum ini kita saling belajar dan saling membangun. Nah sekiranya ada yg terkasar bahasa/terover acting kita sebagai bro. & sis. in CHrist should forgive & forget. Salah satu maksud "Kasih" di dalam 1 Korintus adalah "penguasaan diri"...kita yg memang dipenuhi kasih dari Allah ajar untuk menguasai diri kita..jangan terlalu emosi dlm berforum..secara tenang taiplah pendapat2 korang..ya Fanatik..kalau kau menganggap org2 di sini masih bayi2 rohani...puji Tuhan kerana bayi2 ini masih ada kesempatan untuk bertumbuh menjadi remaja...dewasa...all of us not perfect..still learning from mistakes. Another thing..kalau bulih, jangan biasa pakai tanda ni--> "!"...itu kan tanda seruan..well, up to u all la. I believe ramai yg diberkati lewat forum ini...sama2 bah kita belajar...Yesus sendiri tau seorang dari murid-Nya (Yudas) belum bertobat..tapi kenapa Dia masih membawa dia bersama dlm pelayanan? nah...Jesus is a great person who give more than a 2nd chance to anyone who follow Him..ini kan Tuhan..so, kita harus give & take dgn kawan2 yg ada dlm forum ni...mana2 yg kurang kita tegur dengan kasih...soal kesombongan peribadi tu kita sendiri bertanggungjawab sama Tuhan..termasuk saya juga. Well guys...lebih banyak mencari potensi seseorang daripada mencari kelemahan..membangun lebih baik daripada merobohkan...benerkan? :) God bless..

Date: Mar 19 04:54:12 2004

hai blu3_not3 memeang benar apa yg kamu katakan birlah kita belajar memberkati elupun hanya dlm forum in juga merupakan pelayanan bgi org muda yg boleh menggunakan internet in dgn penuh manafaat so lebih baik kita gunakan kesempatan ni yg ada utk memberkati.

Date: Mar 22 09:08:00 2004

quote:

Originally posted by: fanatik
"saya pun hairan kenapa banyak jawapan korang ni jiwang jiwanglah..........

belas kasihan perlu juga................. salahkah yng saya cakap ni??????????...........kalau salah point yng mana????????..........."

org jawab kelihatan jiwang coz cara dia sendiri, yg ko sibuk pasal jiwang ni kenapa, kalau ada org tanya topik cam ni trus ko padam kah ??? ko ingat semua org diluar sana berfikiran cam ko ?? ko yg kesian ni .. ko cakap belas kasihan juga perlu tapi nada dan cara komen ko sendiri dan berkata-kata jauh sekali penuh dengan hal yg dinamakan KASIH ! jauh sekali .......... ko tanya point mana ko salah ... hah itulah point kesalahan kau ... CAKAP TAK SERUPA BIKIN ............. hentam kromo .......

Tuhan ampuni saya ...........

Date: Mar 24 19:28:35 2004

..............apa boleh buat kalau kamu tidak boleh tahan yng kasar sikit.........................semoga kamu semua berbahagia dengan sesama kamu tu.................saya akan cari orang yng tough untuk berhentam topik topik yng tidak berani dibincang oleh para penakut............................

Date: Mar 25 07:09:00 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: fanatik
"..............apa boleh buat kalau kamu tidak boleh tahan yng kasar sikit.........................semoga kamu semua berbahagia dengan sesama kamu tu.................saya akan cari orang yng tough untuk berhentam topik topik yng tidak berani dibincang oleh para penakut............................"

Baguslah tu fanatik , ko ada topik sendiri sudah, bah berabis lah disana bukan d topik org lain ...

Date: Oct 11 09:51:17 2004

Kalau ikut erti dari kamus webster online

concert:3 : a public performance (as of music or dancing)
Jadi di sini konsert lebih kepada performance ataupun pertunjukan berbanding dengan seisi pujian penyembahan di mana ianya lebih kepada membawa jemaat untuk sama2 memuji dan menyembah Tuhan dan bukan sekadar menjadi penonton.

Minta maaf kalau point ini sudah dibahaskan dalam posting2 sebelum ini..

p/s:walaubagaimanapun di gereja masih terdapat ramai jemaat yg cuma sekadar menjadi penonton semasa pujian penyembahan.

Date: Nov 25 11:00:45 2004

Yes procorus,

precisely!Finally we got the right answer, you see, as we have all know, God is looking for true worshippers. To worship in Spirit and in Truth. In Spirit means to be filled with the Holy Spirit. We can only be filled with the Holy Spirit if we received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, resulting in the fruit of the Holy Spirit shown in our life and the gifts of the Holy Spirit being used to minister God's power such as healing, words of wisdom, prophecy. In Truth means having the fullness of the Word of God in our mind and hearts, increasing our faith and finally obedience to the Word. A lot, isn't it? It's a lot more than singing and dancing the way I see it.

YOu see, there's no point we sing and danced and played with all our might and strength before God if we live a life of DISOBEDIENCE before God (simply because we are ignorance of the Scripture) and worse, we live according to the flesh because we do not want to YIELD to the Holy Spirit(refuse to bear the fruit-love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness and self control). And so we just have a form of outward appearance but we have denied the power of it thereof. This sounds a lot serious, isnt it? I'm sorry brothers but this is the truth.

A concert does not really promote the presence of God, since it promotes the performance of the singers and the musicians.When we worship God, we should humbled ourselves, until God becomes more and more and we become less and less. And God is being glorified.

While Jesus was on earth, many disciples deserted Him. Look at John 6:60-66.

v66-From that time many of His disciples went back, and walked no more with Him.

These disciples were among the 5000 that were fed (John 6:1-12) They were only interested looking for food (v26) and not Jesus.

Look at verse 29-Jesus said-"This is the work of God-that ye believe on Him whom he hath sent. "

Seriously, I think we must reconsider if concert will help people believe in God. Jesus preached without any concert at all, yet many believed in Him.Why? Because He taught as One with authority, and he preached, healed the sick, cast out demons. Seriously, I think we should be doing this.

And finally, praise and worship should be restored to its proper place- to glorify God. It must never be a means of performance and became a concert, because God is not glorified in it.

Brothers, let us walk in love, for love covers a multitude of sin.

God Bless

Date: Nov 25 17:55:13 2004

moore,

If you're really struggling to make sense of what positive things a concert can bring then it is best for you not to attend one. If it's really going to harm you personally and ruin your faith then don't go. You have every right to decline and there will be symphathy for you but not many will miss you.

Never try to assume that everybody else is going to be as weak as you. Some people for some reasons have tougher personalities that can take up any battering or punishment yet remain okay. If you are not in that category then you will probably never understand. So don't worry too much if you cannot appreciate what a concert can do. There are things that people will not be able to understand about you too. So give them the freedom just like you want to enjoy yours. After all we don't need to become CLONES right?

Date: Nov 25 18:13:58 2004

Morning rough,

I don't speak out of ignorance, my friend. You see, I'm a musician and have been called by God to serve Him in this ministry for more than 10 years.

I've seen many things and I am not really encouraged by what is happening to our brothers who were first on fire for God. I have seen many worship leaders fell from the faith in Christ. Backup singers, musicians who, after doing a concert, went back to smoking and drinking-trying to do it discreetly. And many more who are in this music ministry who does not display the fruit of the Spirit-imagine still could not exhibit SELF CONTROL after 5 years in the ministry, displaying impatientness and resentment instead. And these ppl are actively excited even now and involved in doing concert!What happened was they did not put the Word of God in their life and live by it and by the Spirit. I am not offended by what you have said, my friend because this is from the Word of God, and God will defend His Word. Rather, I forgive you and I hope you will see the truth.

NOw, I am still a musician and are managing more musician under me, and I don't encourage them to be involved in concerts unless they are firmly founded in the Bible. Currently I am teaching bible studies for musicians and backup vocals. I do this out of concern for their faith. I want them to be strong in God.

God Bless

Date: Nov 25 18:17:50 2004

Sewaktu saya berada di Dallas Theological Seminary, perkara yang bersangkutan dengan pelayanan puji dan sembah telahpun dibahas dan ini termasuklah yang melibatkan konsert mahupun apa yang dipanggil sebagai gig di gereja gereja ataupun di tempat awam.

Pertama, harus kita selidiki pernyataan yang mengatakan bahawa kita dapat menjangkau jiwa jiwa melalui muzik kita. saya sebagai orang Kristian sungguh sedih apabila begitu ramai daripada kita yang tertipu dengan pernyataan yang demikian padahal kita belum tentu dengan pasti dapat menjumpai nas kitab suci mahupun teologi yang berkenaan tentang muzik dalam menjangkau jiwa jiwa..Kita menjagkau jiwa jiwa melalui perkabaran Injil, hitam dan putih kebenaran dan bukan melalui muzik sahaja. Selama 15 tahun dalam pelayanan Injil, saya tidak meletakkan perkabaran Injil kepada muzik kerana tiada firman Allah yang mengatakan bahawa kita dapat menginjili jiwa melalui muzik. Seharusnya kita sedar bahawa, kedudukan dan martabat Injil didalam gereja sudah diketepikan oleh golongan muda mudi zaman sekarang ini. Perhatikanlah para Rasul yang giat untuk perkabaran Injil, apakah mereka berkonsert untuk menarik perhatian orang ramai di zaman itu? TIDAK! sebaliknya mereka bertekun dalam pengajaran Injil dan bukan menyibukkan diri dengan band, paduan sauara dan sebagainya. Muzik di dalam gereja hanyalah sebuah wadah untuk peluahan rasa syukur dan hormat kita kepada Allah BUKAN satu dari alat untuk menginjil, Apa gunanya kita menginjil jika pengetahuan dan pengalaman Rohani yang berasal dari Injil tidak ada? Janganlah merusak kesucian Injil dan ibadah kita dengan seenaknya menyimpang kepada pengajaran yang tidak berasas sama sekali.

Kedua, berapa ramaikah jiwa yang benar benar bertaubat apabila menghadiri konsert Kristian tersebut? Kebenaran hanya datang dari Firman Allah dan muzik hanya meluahkan respond terhadap kebenaran itu. Jadi, sepatutnya, pelayanan puji dan sembah jangan hanya terbuai dengan lagu yang mengasyikkan. Jika semua pelayanan puji dan sembah hanya menumpukan kepada muzik terus, maka ada baiknya kita melihat kembali, apakah kita mendengarkan Firman Allah dalam kehidupan kita. Kita sudah tahu dengan nama nama besar dalam industri muzik seperti Whitney Houston, Beyonce, Toni Braxton dan seterusnya, mereka bekas pemuji di gereja tetapi mengapa mereka berakhir dengan menjadi penyanyi sekular dan ditambah dengan hidup yang berantakan? Tanyakan diri anda mengapa. Jawapannya mudah sahaja, semua orang boleh nyanyi, boleh meain gitar, main keyboard dan segala macam permainan tetapi apakanh kita yang mengaku menjadi pemuji Tuhan bersungguh sungguh meleburkan diri dengan KEBENARAN FIRMAN ALLAH DALAM SETIAP ASPEK KEHIDUPAN KITA? SUDAHKAH KITA MENTAKZIMKAN ALLAH DI HATI KITA? Walaupun sehebat manapun band kita, suara kita, meriahnya puji dan sembah kita tetapi jika tiada perubahan yang RADIKAL dalam hidup kita, maka segalanya itu merupakan sekadar sessi nyanyian sahaja, yang menjadi tema hanyalah lirik yang berbunyi keagamaan sahaja. Jadi tidaklah menghairankan tentang begitu banyak gereja menjadi seperti dunia ini hanya kerana ia mahu mejangkau jiwa jiwa bukan melalui Injil tetapi melalui muzik..ketahuilah, yang seharusnya kita sebagai orang Kristen dituntut didalam Firman Allah supaya jangan menjadi serupa dengan dunia ini tetapi justeru yang terjadi, orang Kristen, terlebih lagi yang didalam pelayanan Muzik, mengalahkan cara orang dunia. Makanya, saya begitu malu apabila ditanya oleh beberapa orang Muslim yang menghadiri sebuah 'konsert Kristian'. "Is this what you called as worshiping and praising God? This is just like a Linkin Park Concert." Jadi, harap kita semua, berfikirlah sejenak, apakah yang telah kita lakukan kepada TUHAN? memuliakan namaNYA? ataupun memalukan DIA dihadapan orang yang belum mengenal DIA? Tanyakanlah secara jujur.

Terakhir sekali, kemuliaan apakah yang kita berikan kepada TUHAN apabila kita tidak punya hormat langsung terhadap TUHAN? Kita mengaku menyanyikan nama TUHAN, memuliakan nama TUHAN tetapi terlompat lompat macam Linkin Park, Hip Hop..memberi kemuliaankah itu? Silakan anda merenungkan semuanya itu. Buat pelayanan puji dan sembah, janganlah MENJAHANAMKAN KEMULIAAN NAMA TUHAN melalui tindakan dan juga pemahaman yang salah.

sekian, salam kasih dari saya

Linda Maria Diaz